Rambo, There is Love behind that Movie

Attention John Rambo fans. A character in the most recent film, released two weeks ago, is based on a local resident. His name is Pastor Joe Tuccinardi, and he runs an alternative sentencing ranch in Camino called U-Turn 4 Christ. Over the past several years U-turn has been the temporary home for many who have found themselves in trouble with the law, but were given a reprieve from jail because of their addiction problems.

Joe and his wife Cheryl worked with us here at New Life as one of our pastors about 6 years ago. Diane and Darin who came to know and love God in our little fellowship soon followed Joe's vision to the mountains and Darin is a pastor now serving in this ministry. Joe is serious about Jesus' mission and it is great to know his story and the plight of the real life Karen people are the backdrop for this Rambo finale. If you watched the movie you might not realize the story of the Karen people is real. It is. If you watch the movie you will think the pastor is a wuss, this pastor I assure you is not. Proud of you Joe. Keep kicking for the kingdom. This article is from the Mountain Democrat Feb 20, 2008 "California's Oldest Newspaper."

Not only has Tuccindardi had his hand in the rehabilitation of dozens upon dozens of local residents, but a multitude of people from the Karen tribe in Burma.

Just a warning. Much of what Tuccinardi says is controversial. In fact, much of what he says is very hard to independently verify. And the Mountain Democrat didn't try. Regardless, Pastor Joe is a relevant part of the religious and legal landscape in El Dorado County. So hold on tight for the Democrat interview with Pastor Joe, as he discusses a multitude of topics, including the movie, his work in Burma and his views on treatment for drug and alcohol addiction.

Mountain Democrat: Tell me a little bit about the Rambo movie. How did you become involved in that.

Pastor Joe: Rambo originally called Soldier of Fortune Magazine and asked where the worst place on the face of the planet was as far as wars, and they told them Burma. It's a crazy war zone. And they told them about some guys called the Free Burma Rangers, some Americans, who go in and bring relief to the Karen group, which is a tribe in Burma. So he called the Free Burma Rangers, and the leader of the Free Burma Rangers is good friend of mine. He gave them my name. So one of the associate producers of Rambo sent an e-mail to me asking me if I'd be willing to give them a little bit of the story. This was about two years ago.

I first went in to Burma December 2005. Since then we've brought a lot of relief in. We bring medical supplies, Bibles. We now support schools and build schools inside Burma. We've actually helped in building a refugee camp.

So as we began to send e-mails and I sent the story to him, he caught our story and began to write a script.

MD: What's the name of the character in Rambo that was based on you?

PJ: It's Pastor Michael Bennett. And I asked him to change the character and not be a New Yorker or be from California. So they made him from Colorado. And he winds up being a real wimp (laughs). Not exactly like my character. He's afraid of violence and stuff like that. But basically it's based on what I do.

MD: So you saw the movie? How was it?

PJ: Good movie. You know, I'm a harsh critic, because I know the real deal, and I've been inside. It's a good Rambo movie. For me it was personal, because the people who are portrayed as being killed and raped and pillaged are all friends of mine.

There's about 7 million people in the Karen state. It's one of the nine states of Burma. And they're the last ones standing, so to speak.

So we e-mailed back and forth, me and this associate producer. And what winds up happening is in the movie... well they changed it originally. It was supposed to be me and my wife that go into Burma. I meet Sylvester Stallone in Bangkok and ask him to go up the river. And I get caught and my wife goes to him and says please help. They've changed it a little bit. Now I have a fiancŽ instead of my wife. Hollywood kind of changed a couple things.

But basically what the movie is about, what we discerned from watching it, was more about Americans going into Burma and helping in a time of need. It's an atrocity just like Darfur and Sudan. It's one of the atrocities that's under the wire and we're really hoping that the Karen will really be portrayed in a good light and it appears they were.

We have an organization... U-turn for Christ was in Thailand helping out during the Tsunami. We were the guys that were leading in Thailand. We ministered to thousands of people. We built boats and houses. People donated from all over America into our fund. So we started an organization in Thailand called Love in Action. Love in Action was able to help out. Then we were able to plant churches because of that. Then we were able to use that publicity that we had from helping to build churches and help out some of the people we met. Some of them were Burmese Christians. They asked us first. They said they needed help inside Burma. I refused to go at first. And what we did start was two little children who worked in a restaurant for a dollar a day. Burmese immigrants. Refugees in Thailand. They couldn't go to Thai schools because of prejudices. And so we started a school. We really didn't start off to start a school. We really just wanted to help these two kids and teach them. And suddenly their friends came. And now we have 100 children at our Burmese refugee Christian school. God does all the work, we just get too much of the credit.

Christians from Placerville actually support that entire school. We have 100 sponsors from Calvary Chapel in Placerville, First Baptist Church and Christian Life Center in Pollock Pines. So they're all gathered together and they sponsor those children.

As I began to support the children and get to know the parents they begged me to go inside Burma. What happened was in April 2006 about 100 refugees get forced out of Burma. They were forced down to the Salween River. And they started to just camp there because Thailand wouldn't let them come in. I was informed about this because I had begun to reach out to the Karen, and they asked if we could help. So we sent some finances. And then I went in June to see what was going on. I found 400 people there in June camped out. They got involved with the United Nations and some of the relief organizations like World Aid. And World Aid started to send some pots and pans so they could cook. We went back in August and there were 900 people there. We went back in October and there were 1,200. I've been back nine times. I spent Christmas there. I do Christmas services there. I'm the pastor of that village now. That's what they call me. I've been back for Easter. Now there's 3,900 people there. Now a second refugee camp has been started there.

I'm one of three people in the world that are allowed to take groups... on the Salween River... the Thai government allows us to drive up to a boat dock, which is the border between Thailand and Burma. And we get in a pontoon boat and go up the river about 2 1/2 hours and bring relief. And now I'm having about 13 doctors go up there in a couple of weeks. They want to build a hospital on the Thai side. And just begin to give them some clean water and basic necessities. We've built houses for them, provided schools. We have 1,200 kids in that school there. So God has kind of snowballed everything into a large scale mission. And we're not even a church. We're just a bunch of knuckleheads that used to be on drugs and alcohol. God got a hold of us and changed our lives. We've been very successful. God has broadened our horizons and sent us over there.

The Karen people are the most precious people on the face of the planet. All they want to do is just farm their land and just live in peace. Now a lot of people would accuse me of trying to convert these people. Problem is that it's already happened. About 1828 a guy from Massachusetts went there on a boat, through India, and wound up in Burma. He reached some of the Karen people. And now I'd say about 70 percent of the Karen people are already Christian. So I'm not trying to convert anybody; I'm trying to help my fellow brother in Christ.

MD: OK, let's talk about U-turn for Christ. You treat addiction there, right? Is this mostly for people who are in trouble with the law?

PJ: No, I wouldn't say mostly, but when you use drugs and alcohol it's inevitable that you're going to have trouble with the law. I would say 90 percent of the people I minister to do have court cases, and a history of criminal activity.

I myself 20-25 years ago back in New York City was a drug dealer. God got a hold of me and changed me. I wanted to give back because there were some guys from East Los Angeles that came out to Newark, N.J., where I was and got a hold of me. I'm from New York and I went back to Brooklyn and became part of a ministry similar to this. So years later I met a gentleman that was running a U-turn 4 Christ down in Southern California, and I decided to come up and start one up here.

So about six years ago we came up here. And the first thing we did when we came up here, because I got saved in a jail cell, was go to El Dorado County Jail. I ministered to them and taught them what God has done in my life and what God could do in their lives and change them. That this vicious cycle, whether you had a father or didn't have a father, whatever's gone wrong in your life, you turned to drugs as a numbing agent. That God could fill that void for you. That you could begin to be a productive member of society. And so a couple guys came out of jail and came into the program. Guys had court cases and I'd begin to go to court. But we represent people. It's alternative sentencing. According to Proposition 36, which basically says drugs is the core problem and we should treat the addict and the addiction. So when they come up to us we teach them how they can live a life without depending on drugs and alcohol.

Most of the people that came, came to us just like I came 25 years ago, have stunted growth. I came as a 26 year-old man, but really I was a 16 year-old kid. I mean I had been doing drugs so long. I had no responsibilities, I paid no bills. I wasn't a productive member of society. I didn't go to work every day. Nobody ever taught me those things. Maybe because I didn't have a father, but really because I checked out and used drugs and alcohol. So we teach them that this is the right way to live, and you need to do things to be a productive member of society. And we believe the answer is found in the word of God. We don't believe the answer is found in the 12 steps. We're not opposed to them; we just see that they don't work that well.

MD: How does your program differ from a 12-step program?

PJ: Most of that to the reader out there would be a little Christian-ese. I'll tell you the truth, it's the word of God. They wake up at 5 a.m. They do sit around and do a little devotion. They get up and do chores until 7 - 7:30. They make their own breakfast. A group of men living together. After they cook their breakfast someone comes in and teaches them a Bible study. But then they go out. The Bible has a scripture that says, 'Thou who stole, steal no more. But work with your hands, so you can be a blessing to somebody else.'

So following that pattern, they go out and do community service, for free. Those who stole and ripped off their families just go out and bless some little old lady that needs a fence put back up, or a house painted or whatever it may be. So for six hours they do free labor. We go to the food bank, we go to Snowline ball park, we work at churches, we have a thrift store. Many different areas that they can serve. So we teach them to serve. It's a very strict program. It's kind of like the Marines for Jesus, sort of a spiritual boot camp. After that they come back and from 3 p.m. to 4 p.m. we have what we call word fest. We teach them to stop talking. Just be still. Think about the Lord, mediate on the Lord, open your bible, read it and try to apply it to your lives. Application is really stressed in the ministry for U-turn 4 Christ. From 4 p.m. to 5 p.m. that's the first hour they get to take for themselves. They get five minutes for a shower. See we teach them, 'You're not that important. Don't sit there and feed your inner child, or all that stuff. Just take that shower, and get on with the rest.'

Then 5 p.m. dinner, 6 p.m. Bible study. Then they have another time of word fest to end the night. Then 9:30 lights out, and all over again the next morning.

MD: So it's very structured.

PJ: Very structured. Very disciplined. We call it a discipleship ministry. Jesus was very disciplined with those that followed him. He taught them, 'This is how we should live.' He walked with them, he lived with them. That's what I did for the first five years. Now my staff is doing that as I begin to reach out on overseas missions.

MD: And now you have a women's ranch, correct?

PJ: Yes. Since day one I heard in El Dorado County that we had no programs for women like that up here. So about two years ago we decided we needed to move in that direction. Women are not as easy as men to minister to. It's not just the emotions. It's just a whole different animal. We got serious about it last year. Right now we have about eight women.

MD: How many beds?

PJ: There's 12 beds.

MD: How many beds for men?

PJ: Right now there's 16 beds for men. We're in an expansion program. We're trying to buy a piece of property so we can go up to 36 men.

We have a second phase. After the two months of the program they go to the second phase where they go to work and actually apply these principles. They still live within the community of U-turn 4 Christ, and within the area. Teaching them how to apply the truths. And after six months, then they graduate and they can go back to their families, back to their churches.

We don't build up our group; it's not a cult. We're trying to build up: No. 1, the Christian Community, the Kingdom of God; No. 2, the community around us; and No. 3, the individuals' families that need to be restored.

MD: One of your staff was talking about people who may think they don't have options because they can't pay for rehab. Is it true that you help out these people?

PJ: Without using names, some of the local programs, it's at least $5,000 per month to go into a program. Now usually you only need about $500 per month and the insurance will cover the rest. But if you don't have good insurance to cover it, you're pretty much up the river. So what I've done is I've structured it so it costs $800 to $1,000 a month to have an individual in the program. So, I cut that in half. I say come up with $500 a month for the first phase for you to be there. Just for the first two months. If you can't, find someone to sponsor you. Ask one of your family members. Most of the family members don't even want to talk to them by the time they get to us. They're fed up, just like my mother was with me 20 years ago. So, I say ask a distant relative. Maybe they have an aunt or somebody. If that runs out, we say go to three churches and ask them. And if all three churches say they won't sponsor you, then I'll take them in for free. What I do is just trust the Lord that God provides.

MD: Is there typically a waiting list for a bed?

PJ: Not usually. Very rarely. When we see the ministry growing like it is now we're looking for a larger place, but we'll always take somebody.

MD: What do you consider the origin of addiction?

PJ: God says that we're all born with original sin. When Adam and Eve fell so did the human race. We're all born with sin and we're in need of a savior. That's what he teaches. When it comes to addiction, I believe it's more a sin problem. Are we addicted? Absolutely. After five or six months of someone being here I can take a follicle of hair and test and there will still be crank in that hair. So there is a physical addiction. But what doctors and many people today who are treating drugs and alcohol, and what most of them believe is that it's a disease. And it has to be cured somehow by a pill or by some other form of therapy. And while some of that is successful... you know, but I was branded schizophrenic, bipolar, I tell people I would have been ADD and ADHD, you know, but really it was my father left, I was an insecure little boy. And so I turned to the streets and drugs and alcohol became a way of life. And I needed to learn that I didn't need that numbing agent to heal me, I needed something else. I believe there's a deeper problem in each person's life, and usually it's a tragedy of some sort, that spurs that person on to turn to drugs or alcohol. And instead of treating the symptoms, which is drugs and alcohol, let's treat the problem. Let's get to the core. The heart problem. So we teach them, yes, you should not be using drugs and alcohol. But here's the reason why you did that. Because of the issues, spiritually. You have the need for a savior. And a lot of people call it a spiritual crutch, religious crutch. That's not the truth. I don't teach them that Jesus is a crutch.

I don't believe in religion. I tell them that over and over. Religion is man's way to try to get to God. Relationship is what Jesus taught. Have a relationship with your maker. And that's what we teach the guys. And it works. Because they hear truth for the first time in their lives. They're not hearing a bunch of garbage like, 'Just stop,' or, 'Just say no.' They're not hearing that they need a different kind of pill - a pill that's legal - to cover the pill that's illegal. That's not what they need. That's not therapy.

MD: And you think that having a relationship with God treats the core problem?

PJ: Absolutely. I believe that Jesus is the only healer, or the only ointment, as the Bible says, for our wounds.

MD: When I think of Born Again Christians locally I think of Dick Otterstad and the Church of the Divide. Do you align yourself with them?

PJ: I don't align myself with anybody. I don't teach these guys church, I teach them about Jesus. I teach them, 'Hey, let's every Sunday go to a different church.' I'm not interested in telling you what church is right or wrong. I don't let the guys stand on the corner and say, 'Abortion is sin,' because me doing that would be sin. Because then I'm judging my brother and what he's doing. We're all sinners. We all fall short of the glory of God is what the Bible says. What I teach them is to love one another, not to be critical and judge somebody else. I do believe homosexuality is a sin, but so is my judgment of a homosexual. So I teach them that we're all sinners, and we're all in need of God's saving grace. There's no self-righteousness in our ministry. I try not to fall into that category that I'm better than somebody else because now I've found Christ. I'm just one beggar sharing with another beggar where the bread is.

Find out more about Pastor Joe and his work at www.uturn4christ.us or www.loveinactionasia.com.